Dear GLBT Community –
Stop telling Women we are stupid for knowing Trans Women are Male.
Stop threatening Women for knowing Trans Women are Male.
Stop trying to beat Women into submission.
Just stop it.
This level of animosity against women, why it is just like every other man without boob jobs and estrogen shots. 😦
Trans women are WOMEN. End of. Genitals do not = gender, you ignorant fuck.
Trans women are men. Penis=sex=male.
Thanks for trying to make the world “a better place,” though.
Transwomen are women with a birth defect that some have corrected in later life, and all try their best to deal with. Would you tell people born with heart defects they can’t have a heart transplant, that diabetics shouldn’t take their meds, Should a gay couple be allowed to have kids when they can’t get pregnant without the assistance of a member of the opposite sex? Trying to make things better for one group of people by denying rights to another group is no way to make things better for anyone and you know it.
How eloquent of you…
Stop trying to insinuate your penis into women-only places.
You want respect while disrespecting others. Regardless of how you view transwomen, we are humans, so why not treat your fellow humans with the same respect you’d like to receive yourself. What have transwomen done to you to hate us so much?
Ugh, Sarah. Stop trolling.
I’m not trolling, I’m participating in a discussion, isn’t that what this is for? Just because you don’t agree or don’t like what I post, doesn’t I don’t have a voice in the issue, and this post is about trans-women, and you want to exclude trans-women from the debate? You can decide top bar me, to not approve my posts if you really want to, I know I’ve not allowed some of yours on my blog, but that’s only when you’ve posted verbal attacks on people, and not when you’ve had something to post, whether I agree with it or not.
LOL that comment on your crappy blog and at “birth defect.”
Denounce the Tweets Barr is getting. Call out their misogyny.Not here — on those Tweeter’s tags, where they can see them
If you can’t put your money where your mouth is… well, that says all there is to know about you.
[…] more here and here and […]
You’re such a credit to the trans community, responding on topic thoughtfully!
I love that Roseanne retweets those tantruming, name calling tweets she gets.
And yet you still can’t respond to my argument with a sensible one of your own, just more stupid comments.
You have no argument. Sorry about your birth defect. Not our fault.
WOW. These Trans-misogynists would be hilarious if they weren’t pathetically dead-serious.
Just because you’re ashamed of your penis doesn’t make it invisible. You’re demanding a right to walk into a woman-safe space and swing around your erect tool of rape and impregnation.
Thanks to Cathy Brennan for continuing to be so fucking awesome.
…seriously? When is the last time you saw someone’s genitals in a bathroom? ‘Round these parts we have these nifty inventions known as stalls. If someone in the ladies’ room has a penis, you’re not going to see it unless you’re actively trying – who’s the creepy one here??
Transwomen are women. Sex is physical; gender is psychological and social. That’s basic psychology! And the fact that you find it icky that there MIGHT be a penis, unseen, attached to a woman who hasn’t had the surgery yet, in the same bathroom as you does not mean she is obligated to go into the men’s room, where she faces the very real risk of being raped, beaten, or even killed, just to spare your precious feelings.
I am not trans. But I have friends who are. Their lives matter. All women’s lives matter, no matter what they have in their pants.
Trans women are men. The only one obsessed with what’s “in your pants” is men. We would be happy to have men simply respect a boundary. Remember respect?
Oh, I’m very familiar with respect. I simply think it’s hypocritical of you to demand it while being unwilling to give any.
Telling a woman she is a man – telling ANYONE that you know who and what they are better than they do, that their own experience of their own lives matters less than your preconceptions, is extremely disrespectful.
Telling someone that their physical body, something they did not choose and cannot control, defines them more than their mind, heart, and soul, their thoughts and choices – that is disrespectful.
Ignoring the fact that there are virtually no reports of transwomen harassing or molesting anyone in a women’s bathroom – ignoring that there HAVE been many, many instances of transwomen being physically hurt and killed when they try to use the men’s room – and insisting that these women have to suffer and die to satisfy your proprieties… that is both incredibly disrespectful and downright despicable.
We’re talking about the physical safety and lives of real people, vulnerable people who are victimized by the patriarchy every bit as much as ciswomen are. And you are sitting back, smugly ‘splaining to them that they’re not “really” who they know themselves to be, and throwing them under the bus… for what? Some esoteric sense of outrage? Fear that they might do something that they have never done, that they have no reason to do? Nasty associations because they have a physical resemblance to someone that makes you uncomfortable? For THAT, they deserve to be beaten, raped, and killed, and ostracized by those who should be their allies?
And you have the gall to pretend it’s YOUR boundaries being crossed, and to lecture me about respect?
You seem like a nice, albeit dimwitted, person. Please read http://genderidentitywatch.wordpress.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/ for the feminist objections to gender identity. You will see that bathroom stalls has little to do with it.
Once you engage with that material, if you still think we are bigots and meanies, come back. At that point, we will point and laugh at you for supporting the biggest end-run around feminist organizing since forever.
In recent misogyny news, a man walked into a feminist rally in Brazil and whipped his penis out and started swinging it around. He is now being heralded on the internet as a hero of woman-haters. The aftermath can be seen here.
I just think it’s ironic that trans people are pretty much fighting for the right to do this exact same thing.
Yep. Exactly right.
oh for gods sake, the bathrooms again,this is ridiculous http://unchainedaura.com/2012/11/04/seriously-fuck-the-bathroom-debate/ http://unchainedaura.com/2012/11/04/a-message-to-people-who-identify-as-allies-to-the-trans-community/ ,. Actual transwomen are sick to hell of this stupid battle, even more sick of having to hold it because there’s nowhere safe to pee and long since suggested a solution. An effective which could be enacted if we had help- rather than biological essentialist attacks. Yes the idiots who attacked roseanne barr using misogynistic language were wrong, I agree wholeheartedly, However the entire situation was handled badly from start to finish by management.
Hi Unchained Aura –
You might recall when we proposed a compromise to the gender Identity legislation, we got death threats: http://genderidentitywatch.wordpress.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/
The ball is firmly in the Trans court. Fix your agenda, because it’s broken.
For more on the conflict, see https://bugbrennan.com/2012/11/03/watching-a-car-accident-in-slow-motion/
Sex based protections are a good thing, pushing for the removal of gender based protections used to augment these laws so trans people get the same level of protection as any other woman on earth is not, sex based protections alone do not protect from hate crimes, do not prevent discrimination in housing, or in employment. The glass celing is there and despicable but you at least can get employed. Yet we lack even that basic framework of legal protection that womyn born womyn are currently provided, and your letter to the UN did not help that situation in the least. You can sue for sexism. As any state without protections for gender discriminations makes plain , we can be made homeless, unemployed, trans panic can be usede as a defense for murder, people like cece mcdonald can be imprisoned for years for defending themselves against a racist neo nazi determined to kill them and will even be told off in court for endangering their attacker. By all means push for sex based protections just do not do so by maliciously blocking legal protection for trans people, push instead for laws trhat provide protections based on sex and gender identity, the 2 are not mutually exclusive except on the bathroom issue where solutions have already been offered.
You have a reading impediment. You are stating the compromise we offered – that the class of people afforded trans protections be limited to actual trans people – is not good enough. Why? If you don’t have a class of actual trans people (which, btw, I don’t think you do), you have NOTHING.
actually no because what you push for seems to advocate exclusion of those who cannot attain final surgery. Not everybod is eligible for the final op, a friends of mine would die if she was subjected to it. That does not make her any less worthy of the same dignity as any other woman on earth.
You have a reading impediment. Also, your distaste for your penis is not our problem.
funny that, I have been reading tolkien since age 7, I do not suffer a reading impediment. I just find the toxic way you write your perspective of transsexuals throughout your articles belies your statements of respect for us as individuals. As for distaste of the penis if that is what you consider transsexuality to be you clearly have no more understanding of the condition than an american conservative male has of womens lived experiences.
I don’t need to understand or even be interested in you.
Yes, you have a reading impediment. Sorry about that.
not only is that downright offensive to anybody who suffers from a reading difficulty, it is also downright dismissive. I do not dismiss your lived reality yet you assume you have the right to dismiss mine.
When you repeatedly, wrongly assert things that are not in the letter, I can only assume you have a reading impediment. And I will dismiss you.
If you don’t understand it, get someone to read it to you.
ableist too I see, ok then your article3 seems to propose some kind of affirmation of a genuine transsexual, can you 0please specify in what way we are supposed to affirm our gender?
You’re an idiot.
I did not use insults to you, you however did to me, is this how you debate?
This is a blog, not a debate.
This definition of “gender identity” does not require any objective proof. Rather, it merely requires the person seeking protection to assert that he or she identifies as the sex opposite his or her sex at birth. Further, because Title 11 only permits discrimination in sex-segregated facilities based on sex, a person asserting gender identity as a basis to avoid “discrimination” must be permitted to use the rest room or bath house of their chosen “gender identity” – without regard to any action taken on the part of that individual to change their physiology to “become female” (i.e., sex reassignment surgery.
a quote of the article you linked, all I was asking was does that not give the impression that non operative trans people would be under less protection under the legislation you seek than post operative?
Many, many people have asked about our views of pre-ops and post-ops. Let’s review the suggested language in footnote [xxix] to our UN submission:
We support the following definition of “gender identity” – a person’s identification with the sex opposite her or his physiology or assigned sex at birth, which can be shown by providing evidence, including but not limited to medical history, care or treatment of a transsexual medical condition, or related condition, as deemed medically necessary by the American Medical Association.
The definition says nothing about surgery, or pre-op or post-op status. It simply says treatment of a transsexual medical condition. People of trans experience require medical treatment to physically transition to the sex opposite their assigned-at-birth sex. This means a female-to-male trans person will want to obtain testosterone, which he can only do legally with medical intervention. This also means that a male-to-female trans person will want to obtain estrogen, which she can only do legally with medical intervention. In other words, our definition of ‘gender identity’ covers all people of trans experience who are dedicated to transitioning and therefore rely on medical professionals to aid their transition.
that definition makes sense , and I have fitted it for over 4 years.
I just read the other writings on gender identity watch, they make more sense than the individual post linked out of context, in fact what you propopse makes a lot of sense if al reaqd together, my apologies reading the first link was a largely unclear view of what you were suggesting I should have read further before commenting but given the view all I could see was the repeated misgenderings from your previous articles, that made it hard to focus on the issue at hand as a lot of other stuff said throughout the stuff I read of yours hurt badly without that little bit of information i needed to see your perspective. My apologies it took so long.
As for the gender recognition act, I live in the uk and have tried sorting the hoops you need to jump through in order to attain gender recognition, if you are an NHS patient you can forget about it instantly, the entire asessment model is based on a 50 years out of date standard of care expecting you to conform to the same rules of gender that werev in place at that time, The legal requirements for this are 2 years living full time in rolse, after 5 I’m still being stonewalled. The system is broken.
That is not the fault of women.
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