With Gay Guys Like These…

Meet Peter Jenkins.

Peter is a Gay Go Getter profiled in the Louisiana version of that Examiner newspaper in May for his go-getterness.  Peter wanted to attend a Victory Fund Training as a start to his dream of being the first openly-gay Louisiana legislator!

WHAT A GOOD GAY!

But it’s not just glory he seeks.  Peter Jenkins is concerned about important issues.

Like destroying Women-only space. Like telling Women our sex – the very thing used against us – is a Social Construct. Helpful!

According to the Peter Jenkins, Government needs to protect the rights of all individuals, such as transgender individuals. He expressed how often transgender individuals – a population sometimes even overlooked by the marriage equality movements – are denied basic rights. For instance, he said, employment can be a problem since often the sex on their legal documents doesn’t match their gender.

Marriage equality can be a big issue for transgendered people as well though, Jenkins said, because often a transgendered person’s marriage can be invalidated depending on how the court views gender – since many courts view it as unchangeable from birth – which means they can lose many rights, as well as parental rights to their children.

Awww, what a good guy, right?

Jenkins also admitted that he’s afraid that once marriage equality passes, the larger movement of people will decrease in number, similar to how the feminist movement temporarily waned after women gained the right to vote.

On the subject of women’s rights, Jenkins said he’s against the War on Women.

WHAT A SHERO!

“I still don’t understand why in 2012, we’re still having to fight for women to have birth control. I don’t understand why we’re fighting these same battles that were fought 50 years ago,” said Jenkins.

I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!

Here’s why, Peter. Because Men like you keep shouting over WOMEN and telling us what and how to think.

It’s because you say idiotic things like this:

In an episode of unbridled mansplaining, Peter took STRONG exception that Feminists – Women – in an Online Feminism group on Facebook would dare to suggest that Trans Women are Men! The horror!

So Women discussing issues of concern to Women – like this case of the man claiming Gender Identity as a means to gain access to Women-Only Space – makes that group a Hate Group.

So, Peter Jenkins, Victory Fund trainee, thinks Women are HATEFUL for knowing that Men are Men and that Penis is Male.

I would suggest, Peter, that most of the Country Knows this. It’s only Genderqueers and GLBT Operatives who insist that “Trans Women are Women” and who insist it’s only right-wing conservatives who don’t understand that Trans Women are Women.

SO MUCH FOR CARING ABOUT WOMEN!

And, even better, when called out on this – that Women have a right to organize as Women and to establish boundaries based on Sex – Peter pointed out that “we live in a democracy.” You know, a democracy where the rights of 50% of the country can magically be erased by saying “Trans Women Are Women.” That kind of democracy. And that makes it right. Because reasons.

Peter Jenkins – Women must have a 100% right to determine their own boundaries.

Let me repeat: Women must have a 100% right to determine their own boundaries.

You wonder why the War on Women is still raging? Tools like you who keep insisting that Men are Women and should have access to Women-Only Space – you dilute our efforts, you aid the enemy, you are the enemy.

Lesbians – Look at the Gay Guys around you. I am betting they sound a lot like Peter. Peter does not care about you, Lesbians, and he does not care about Women.

Just Say No To Peters. For the sake of all of us.

42 comments

  1. NO to Peters!

    this made me lol, thanks. well, parts of it anyway. he sure has all the funny talk down pat doesnt he?

    1. Yeah, he is a pro at the Gay Orthodoxy. Trans Women Are Women!! Blergh..

  2. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised to see a gay white male political wannabe pandering to the checkbooks of the predominantly white heterosexual pretendbians who don’t give a damn about female-only space or the reasons why we want to keep it…after all, with their lifetime of privilege, they are often the ones being solicited by the fundraisers AND able to write the donation checks so coveted by the Peters of the political world.

    1. Lesbians need to wake the fuck up about what the GLBT Movement is doing to us.

  3. It must really suck to be so full of anger… I can not understand how you can call yourself a feminist… A person who stands up for women in the sense that women are an oppressed minority, yet you spew hatred and venom towards a different minority. That doesnt make you a feminist, that just makes you a hypocrite. Can someone tell me WHY we feel that we have to tear others down to build ourselves up? Are we really willing to gain ground on the backs of others who are oppressed?

    Your hate-filled attack on Trans Women disgusts me. If thats what feminism is, than I want nothing of it. Combatting hate with more hate is not effective. Combatting oppression with more oppression is not effective. Screaming about the denial of your own rights and fighting against your own invisibility while denying others the right to an identity and a existence is NOT effective, its not fair, and its definately not right.

    People like you make me ashamed to call myself a feminist.

    1. How is it hateful to know that sex and gender are different? Trans women seek to gain ground on the backs of Women. Why does that not bother you, Erica?

    2. Trans can identify however they want but they have no right to demand that others recognize them as what they are not. The Male to Trans is NOT female nor should the law treat them as such OR provide them statutory access to sex-segregated space designated for the female of the species. Recognition of the simple fact that biology is real is not hate…

      As Cathy duly noted earlier in a response to my first post…lesbians need to wake the fuck up! And calling Jenkins on his bullshit is ALSO not hate.

    3. Funfem alert. “but what about the menzzz?” “dear god won’t someone think of the MENZZZZ!!” Take that finger waving and shove it back up your asshole, eric. You’re a woman hater, eric! You’re a disgusting handmaiden, eric.

    4. “A person who stands up for women in the sense that women are an oppressed minority”

      Oppressed, yes, minority NO.

      “People like you make me ashamed to call myself a feminist.” So don’t then.

      No one is denying trans folks the right to an existence, or removal of basic rights, just that some of us in the minority called ‘women’ aren’t prepared to see the very basics (i.e. what it MEANS to be a woman) mangled just so some males can have what they want, and never mind the damage that these beliefs about gender have caused to women in the past, and are still causing.

      …………although Nicoles answer was pithier!

  4. Trans women ARE women, and this bigotry is absolutely sickening. You need to do some work in the LGBTQ community to educate yourself. It’s shameful to call yourself a feminist while simultaneously oppressing another community. I almost gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought that perhaps you had your labels switched (that you were reading trans women as women transitioning to men rather than the other way around), but based on your remarks about men and gay men toward the end, unfortunately, you DID understand the meaning of trans woman. I won’t pretend that all feminists share the same beliefs, because that is a gross error, but Peter isn’t wrong in saying that your view is a minority opinion in the feminist community. There are few well-educated, academic feminists (the ones I know are active in women’s and LGBTQ rights, study women’s & gender studies, and feminist theory) that would hold your opinion. I’m a Women’s and Gender studies student myself, and I’m appalled that a feminist in 2012 would say that trans women are not women and don’t deserve to be treated as such. You’re the first feminist I’ve heard of that believes that.

    1. Trans women are MEN, not women. Trans women should learn to respect women.

      You don’t get out much beyond the GLBTWTF community I am guessing. You sent this from an account called bathroomslave@gmail.com – LOL.

    2. “You need to do some work in the LGBTQ community to educate yourself.”

      LOL – HAVE A PHFUCKINGD IS THE GLBTWTF COMMUNITY.

    3. “Trans women ARE women”

      Appalling!! You’re absolutely despicable to even suggest that. No you’re not a woman! You’re another male with a fetish or a clueless little girl who supports misogynists. Next thing ya know they’ll want urinals in women’s bathrooms to accommodate their “woman penis”. *snort*.

      Also, feminism isn’t about putting actual women last and kicking actual women in the teeth and it’s appalling that frauds like you do that all the time.

    4. ” I’m a Women’s and Gender studies student myself, and I’m appalled that a feminist in 2012 would say that trans women are not women and don’t deserve to be treated as such. You’re the first feminist I’ve heard of that believes that.”

      Except you yourself mention others higher up. Plus feminists have been saying that for a LONG TIME, this whole trans women are women thing is relatively recent.

      What IS IT with this attempt to ‘shame’ radical feminists by spouting what academic feminists have written, or boasting about how many womens (or, forsooth, ‘Gender’) studies degrees you have?

      Okay, when it came to a subject like physics or maths or chemistry or engineering I’d sooner believe someone who had a PhD when I was seeking advice about, say, whether or not I was doing my sums correctly.

      But when it comes to asking whether or not I’m ‘doing my feminism’ correctly? Or you can only do it properly when you’ve got a degree. Sounds like bollocks to me.

  5. I’m a lesbian and a feminist and, while I strongly support women only space, I also have a place in my heart and activism for transgender people.

    Part of what I fight for as a feminist is for my gender to not define me – that my gender identity not stop me from getting the educational opportunities I need or keep me from following my chosen career path. That my gender expression not have me harassed on the street or giving someone else the right to pull me out of bathrooms and changing rooms because I don’t look like their definition of a woman.

    One of my biggest issues with patriarchy is the forcing everything into a binary – man/woman, straight/lesbian, black/white. There is no room for a continuum of genders, orientations or, god help us all, a mixing of the races. I know what it means to negotiate a life outside the false dichotomies and stereotypes of our misogynist/racist/transphobic/homophobic/ageist/classist world.

    Breaking those labels and defining their own reality is at heart of what transgender folk want. Why should the biological sex they were assigned at birth keep them becoming the woman (or man) they know they are any more than the sex I was assigned at birth restrict me?

    While Peter (who, in the interest of full disclosure I know personally) may have offended with his attempts to engage in conversation or enter women only space, I will still have to commend him for making an effort.

    Far too many white men, whether they be straight or gay or in between, do not even attempt to be feminist and inclusive, do not even attempt to address their own male privilege, do not, for one single moment walk in our shoes.

    We have the absolute right to define the boundaries of our groups. As a sexual assault survivor, my soul and body were healed when I found safe spaces with other women. I would never, for a single moment, try to shame someone for delineating separate space but I also must recognize that some people are hurt when we define the boundaries of our socially constructed genders by our biological sex assignments.

    I implore all of you to work towards understanding each other and not towards tearing each other down. We should be encouraging dialogue, so we can, together as women, as trans-folks, as femmes, as butches and as queers—figure out a peaceful and positive way to bridge conflicts within our community without humiliating anyone for trying to change himself and society.

    Thank you.

    1. It is not up to women to “encourage dialogue” with trans women. The trans movement has run roughshod over women and women’s rights. Women are done. Try another tactic.

    2. Peter did exactly what men do – tell women they’re wrong. And you think he’s a hero who should be applauded? Fascinating.

      1. I don’t recall using the term hero. My point with saying he should be commended for his effort was this: those who try, should be acknowledged rather than mocked or they will cease seeing our fight for liberation as their fight as well. It’s just my two cents but I’ve found that making enemies of potential allies just makes our work harder.

      2. Peter is ALREADY our enemy who makes “our work” harder. You want us to commend him for what, exactly? Telling women they are bigots for wanting our own space? That’s interesting.

    3. Mary I spent some time looking at the Forum for Equality’s blog. I found this by you – https://forumforequality.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/221/ – I see you are a good trans ally. I didn’t see anything where you were talking about women-only space. It’s important that if you are for something, particularly as an officer of a GLBT organization, that you be for it, publicly, so that other may see your support. Did I just miss it? Or are you a GLBT Operative who is “supportive” in her head?

      1. I applaud your diligence in tracking down my work but nearly every blog I’ve ever written can be found on the blog associated with the wordpress user account I’m using to make comments.

        You’re more than welcome to check out those. While I’ve written on women’s specific issues for other blogs (just as I write primarily LGBT blogs for the Forum), I think the only thing I’ve ever written specifically on women-only space was an editorial back in the late 90’s after my last trip to the Michigan’s Women’s Music Festival. That was back before I caught on about the whole world wide web.

        The flooding post Hurricane Katrina destroyed most of my hardcopies of newsletters and papers, so I can’t quote directly. The gist of what I wrote, however, was that I felt rejuvenated by being surrounded by a community of women, that the freedom of being on a piece of land absent of any men was like nothing I had ever felt before but that I couldn’t return. I understood the reasoning of the policy of women born women but my feminism is inclusive. While I would never undermine their right to separatist space, I could no longer participate.

        I also put in a paragraph that the Trans activists needed to give a little, too. The interest of women’s safety was a priority and that no-one who was socialized as a male could really understand our need to be secure. I wondered if there could be some proof that they were living their lives as women that might be an acceptable compromise.

        I am supportive of women only space but I am not an activist for it. As a women’s rights activist and LGBT organizer, I am very vocal about women’s issues in every group and organization in which I participate. It is one of my priorities that women are a part of any decision making process, that we outreach and engage to include women in our strategic plans ie that women’s health issues are not ignored because of HIV/AIDS focus or that pay equity is considered as a factor in women’s ability to financially support the movement and that the men address their male privilege/sexism. Specifically with the Forum For Equality, we have events for women and we have a committee to make sure we are developing tomorrow’s lesbian leaders.

      2. You are condescending now – no diligence, yes, easy to find you and no, not a lot on your blog. It’s probably time for you to address it.

        It sounds to me that YOU could benefit from more reading. Try this: http://genderidentitywatch.wordpress.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/ and http://genderidentitywatch.wordpress.com/frequently-asked-questions-about-brennan-hungerfords-un-submission-re-gender-identity-legislation/

        Cheers.

      3. I apologize for being condescending – it has been my experience in the online world that few people do even a modicum of research or background checking. That you made the effort is noteworthy.

        Thank you for the articles, I will read them.

      4. Great. Thanks for stopping by.

    4. “Part of what I fight for as a feminist is for my gender to not define me – that my gender identity not stop me from getting the educational opportunities I need or keep me from following my chosen career path…………..”

      The basics for the hard of thinking.

      We get oppressed not because of our gender or our gender presentation, the problem is our SEX. Gender presentation is just a short-cut, for identifying who is female amd who isn’t (I’m talking basic biology here).

      Feminism based on gender identity (rather than sex), isn’t feminism, because it ignores the very basics, in that it is women (i.e. female human beings, however they may present, or whatever gender they may claim, or even if they think they don’t have a gender) who are underneath in a power structure that works for the benefit of male human beings.

      Erasing SEX by placing gender as primary, or claiming that biology is just a social construct, further harms women, because it tries to deny what is actually going on here. Women aren’t a GENDER, but a sex, and are treated accordingly from day one.

      The problem, dear Brutus, lies not in our ‘innate gender’ or our presentation of gender, but in our blood and bones and wombs, that we are underlings ———thereby identified as FEMALE. Messing about with presentation just confuses the sex-detector, that is all, that is why the menz get annoyed at uppity dykes who wear sensible shoes.

      The whole equality alphabet soup just does the same confusion job too. After all, saying that we should all be EQUAL and we should all be nice to each other is after all, MUCH less threatening than pointing out WHY we have ended up where we are, with the majority of the human race being dumped on by the minority. And that reason is biology and SEX, not superficial gender. And that same patriarchal system is the one that would LOVE us to believe that ‘gender’ is innate, that women are treated differently in respect of our different, pink girlie brains (unsuited to logical thought and hard sums).

      Gender and presentation is just the patriarchies alternative to having us walk around naked all the time, that is all.

  6. “While Peter (who, in the interest of full disclosure I know personally) may have offended with his attempts to engage in conversation or enter women only space, I will still have to commend him for making an effort.”

    Forgive me for speaking ill of your friend marygriggs but here’s what he actually did. He came into a feminist group and kept mansplaining us, telling us what we *ought* to think, including that feminism is about “gender equality”. I explained that feminism is actually about the liberation of women and, that, as part of our fight for liberation, we (radical feminists) seek the abolition of gender.

    He, not only did not accept that, he went on to his own facebook wall, repeated *again*, despite my correcting him the first time, that we (members of that group) supported “gender equality”. I corrected him again and suggested he doesn’t listen – at which point he blocked my profile so I could no longer correct his fallacies. He also urged his facebook friends to report our group, having misrepresented it to them.

    Now, that, to me, is not at all a man who is “making an effort”. That is a man who is quite happy to sabotage and distort the voices of radical feminists, simply because he is a liberal reformist/humanist who believes in the rights of individuals rather than structural oppression.

    I hope you’ll reconsider your alliances at some point and join us, your sister lesbians, in our fight for our right to assert our own boundaries.

    1. Thank you for providing more information – as I said in my comment you have an absolute right to assert your own boundaries.

      Because I work at an LGBT Community Center and as Political Director for an LGBT civil rights organization, my efforts are focused toward building alliances across all oppressions to create a society free from discrimination. While I would be happy to have gender abolished, these days I’m settling for an enumerated anti-bully bill, an inclusive Violence Against Women Act, and Employment Non-Discrimination laws. I engage with anyone who will help me advance the push for rights for the disenfranchised and that includes my brothers like Peter and my sisters like y’all. It will take all of us to liberate us!

      1. Mary, you might suggest to Peter that he APOLOGIZE for acting as he did and disrespecting women who disagree with him. We are actually entitled to disagree with him.

      2. An inclusive VAWA just adds men. Why, Mary, does this have to be a priority for women? Answer – it’s doesn’t and it’s not.

      3. I have approached Peter as I do believe his behavior was a perfect example of male privilege in action. I’m hoping to have as fruitful of a dialogue with him as I am with you.

        An inclusive VAWA does add men but it also adds protection for immigrant women, native women and lesbians. I admit I’m willing to add those few men to get coverage for so many more women.

      4. Good male allies – including trans women – don’t demand access to all spaces and all movements. We can lobby for immigrant women, native american women and lesbians because they are WOMEN.

        Glad you are talking to Peter. Hopefully he will come here and apologize. The women he wronged read this blog regularly.

  7. When lesbians have boundaries, gay men just could care less. Another idiot white gay man telling us that we don’t have the right to woman born women space, that we can’t define our boundaries, and that we suspect the trans movement is threatening us in our desire for bodily autonomy.
    What’s with it with these guys anyway? Cathy, thanks again for reporting this. Maybe Peter should check out what the trans do at NYC dyke marches.

    Contact Victory Fund to complain about this guy!

  8. Hey when women say NO to men, it’s still radical. When are lesbians going to really wake up to this stuff? When we have no space left at all, and the men in dresses and penis’ take over all our marches?

  9. Okay, I have to pull up the HIV/AIDs thing. Mary seems to suggest implicitly that this is a gay men’s health issue, and that she is a good ally because she *also* focuses on women’s health. But there are now more women worldwide living with HIV than men. So clearly, it is centrally a women’s health issue, and the fact that Mary appears not to even acknowledge that fact says a lot about just how little she actually thinks about women’s health.

    Women in prostitution are one group particularly at risk of contracting HIV worldwide; the UN thinks the answer is to legalise prostitution worldwide. The UN thinks this would reduce the rate of HIV infection.

    Even though legalisation will result in more women being prostituted; will result in the growth of the ‘illegal’ trade right alongside the ‘legal’. More women and girls in prostitution=more HIV infection=more strain on already inadequate resources.

    Not to mention the insanity of legalising one particular form of sexual slavery worldwide because it happens mostly to female persons, and is therefore somehow okay.

    So what am I getting here; that HIV only matters when it happens to middle-class gay white guys, and is *not* a health issue when it happens to women? Or that we should support policies that would actually lead to greater numbers of women being prostituted and infected by HIV?

    Because men need sexual access to women under any circumstances, and that this is so important it must be written into international law?

    This is equality discourse in practice.

    1. “One of my biggest issues with patriarchy is the forcing everything into a binary – man/woman, straight/lesbian, black/white.”

      Except the first is just plain ole biological fact (and no disrespect to intersex folks). You can’t escape that by wishing, small gametes and large gametes, even the patriarchy isn’t responsible for THAT one (unless you’re a creationist and a christian, in which case we can blame the ultimate patriarch for that one as well!)

      This dichotomy you could argue stems from the primary me/other, with MEN as me, or subject, and women as the ultimate other from day one, the object. Man being the default human, and women again as other.

      But the solution to the gender issue (which comes from the primary SEX issue) isn’t to just have MORE genders, or bendy genders, but get rid of gender.

      Lesbian/straight, being as it is based on sex, is actually a meaningful distinction, that MATTERS to those who are lesbian — despite the attempts of the gender theorists to convince us that we are really homogenderists rather than homosexuals, and that a woman can have a penis and we should like it………………………

    2. I apologize if I gave the impression that I do not recognize the impact HIV/AIDS has on women in my response. I am very aware that I live in a state with the 1st and 2nd ranked cities for new cases (as reported by the CDC) and that most of the new statistics are actually women. The point I was making was there there are also other health issues that LGBT organizations should include in their mandates, ie lesbians disproportionately suffer from breast cancer and, yet, few LGBT groups make breast health a priority.

  10. Yep, which is WHY I don’t work with gay men anymore, or have many in my life…their sexism is as bad as the most sexist hetero males I can deal with. At least the hetero males have women in their lives and gotta behave ENOUGH to the extent to keep ’em. Gay men can dismiss women altogether, and they ALWAYS have dismissed most Butch and strong independent assertive Lesbians…surrounding themselves with often feminine or hetero faghags instead, ‘yes women’ that will kowtow to them, and their VERY REAL male privilege, including much greater economic privilege than most Lesbians have.

    Lesbians and WOMEN get to define OUR communities, and our spaces….if we want them WBW only, or only recognize other Lesbians as Lesbians and/or womyn who are bio female, that is OUR business. We don’t tell them who they can have in their sex palaces, male events, or venues, so don’t tell us Dykes who we will tolerate in ours! No wonder so few Dykes are visible in the large gay organizations, cuz they CONSTANTLY have to kowtow to gay men and gay male sexism, which is JUST AS REAL, as hetero male sexism!
    -FeistyAmazon

  11. This was despicable. I really don’t know what the world has done to make you this angry – and I live in the same damnable world, and I’m pretty angry about a number of things, too, but this is just over the top.

    1. Yeah, men continually ignoring female boundaries makes us pretty damn angry too.

  12. […] be this guy or this guy or this guy or this guy or this […]

  13. Beyond that sexist asshole, it’s lesbians like Mary who are ‘Gay Inc.’ that really burn me up! She USED to go to Michigan, but can’t support it cuz it’s for WBW, while it’s Ground Central for Lesbian Nation too…and EVERY form of Lesbian can and do show up there…it’s steeped in Dyke/Amazon/WOMYN’S culture, not Gay Inc. culture! The women FLOWER there in their creativity, in a way they do not at the Gay Parade and other gay events, cuz the males overshadow them so, or make fun of ’em, even the drag queens and MTF’s! But at Michfest, I was amazed at the depth of Lesbian and Female creativity ON PAR with the gay males…but uniquely THEIR OWN free expressions, in all stages of dress and undress(many with just gorgeous body paint), something they would NEVER reveal in front of any kind of male: MTF, Gay, Het or even FTM.

    Mary reminds me of Sue Hyde with Creating Change, that wants LESBIAN input into Creating Change, and we have a Lesbian Caucus group with 600 WBW Lesbians GIVING That input, but Gay Inc. Sue completely, just like Mary, IGNORES OUR Lesbian needs, for everyone else’s agenda to keep her paycheck coming…maybe they should marry each other, cuz these two Gay Inc. Lesbian Sisters AREN’T OURS, having sold us down the river. And all we get are 3 lousy ‘lesbian identified'(which could mean ANYTHING) workshops that those with penises could crash, should they identify as “Lesbian”. And nary a peep from Mary about the “Cotton Ceiling” debate, the very real pressure that trans’women’, that is, MTF born males, are putting on Lesbians to have sex with them, WHETHER THEY RETAIN A PENIS, OR NOT, and shaming them for being ‘transphobic’ if they don’t. Tough titty, you still gonna defend them Mary, against LESBIAN needs? Well, then we won’t support you, Sue Hyde, or any mixed Gay Inc. organization that does not respect BASIC Lesbian needs and caters to the trans at our expense. Or all the Butches/boyish Dykes/Genderqueers having REAL pressure put on them to transition, to take ‘T’, to have breast removal surgery of perfectly healthy body parts cuz it’s chic, in, and the psychiatrists and doctors and ‘trans nonprofits’ are making boatloads of money off the whole shaming phenomena! Nobody is questioning these young females LEAVING their womonhood in droves for a chemical and surgical solution to rampant sexism and Lesbophobia? I’ve known too many who have told me just how intense that pressure is from their peers, sometimes from their dates, and also in the workworld, that if they ‘conform’ to male standards, they could do better in the work world! THIS is liberation for Dykes, for Butches, for Females? I think not!

    Don’t you get it Mary? ‘Gender’ is a patriarchal SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, a limiting box that does not free us, and keeps us trapped, but our fantastic Wild Female Beings are absolutely freeing, when we don’t have to hear the voices or shamings by ANY males, past, present or future….OR women who will speak for the man, as their handmaiden! And I’m a Butch Dyke who NEVER fit into ANY ‘feminine’ role, EVER.
    -FeistyAmazon

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