This is Why Lesbians Don’t Talk about Gender Identity

March 28, 2012

National

http://iblamecathybrennan.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/the-sisterhood-%E2%98%85-blames-cathy-brennan-for-cotton-ceiling-cock-blocking/#comment-69

It looks like the dark avenger is Paula Pandora Allen,  Interim President Trans Panthers UK!

http://falseeconomy.org.uk/campaigns/event/pay-your-taxes-day-of-action.-thursday-31st-march

http://mansplaintransplain.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/gee-that-looks-just-like-a-threat-of-violence-against-a-lesbian-mr-super-secret-nobody-knows-im-a-man-paula-pandora-allen/

About Cathy Brennan

Gender Atheist.

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63 Comments on “This is Why Lesbians Don’t Talk about Gender Identity”

  1. ehungerford Says:

    I hate this post.

  2. bugbrennan Says:

    Thanks. I have years of experience working with the mentally ill, so I am well-equipped to be the Great Satan opposing trans ideology (this is kind of a joke, see

    http://endablog.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/oh-im-sure-the-transphobic-phake-pheminists-will-tell-you/#comment-15571).

    But seriously, if the fact that violent Males threaten to kill me means that Lesbians and Females might one day be free of this oppressive Gender Identity ideology, I think that’s a price I am willing to pay.

  3. Mary Sunshine Says:

    Cathy, I only “Like” it that you have publicly documented this.

  4. Sargasso Sea Says:

    Wtf is the difference between a “right” Lesbian and “wrong” one?

    I guess the “wrong” type of murdered lesbian is a the kind who was born male…

    (I’ll watch your back 24/7)

  5. Amananta Says:

    Sorry Smash. But this is the reality when you touch a nerve on the male establishment in any way. I’ve gotten these sort of insane death threats for speaking out on an entirely different matter.

  6. Nicky Says:

    Cathy, I like you because you time and time again show how violent and extremist trans can be. Also for the trans who have threatened women, be careful what you say, we have witnesses here.

  7. Cynical Cynthia Says:

    What is it with all the hate out there like this shit? Lord, can the trans not learn to shed violence as their only outlet when no violence has been put against them? >.>

    Thank you for putting yourself out there for us Cathy. Not even I am brave enough to not hide behind a pseudonym yet. Some day perhaps I’ll feel safe enough, and I’ll owe a lot of it to you and the other women fighting against this shit in the open. I hope I can help a bit from the “shadows.”

    Best Wishes.

    • bugbrennan Says:

      Thanks. I’ve gotten literally hundreds of messages like this from different women (including trans women) since I decided to get back involved in the fray of Gender Identity. Happy to do it. None of us will be free of oppressive JENDAH until we can speak freely about it.

      • Cynical Cynthia Says:

        I don’t really get why so many trans women are into such bullshit anyway though. I thought the whole transsexual thing was about their brains being uncomfortable with their body’s initial sex. Why are so many so adamant to confound gender shit into the mess?

  8. nuclearnight Says:

    Creepy fuckers. I’m sorry you’re getting so many fucked up messages and shit like this.

    I hope you have a concealed weapons permit :)

  9. Jules Says:

    I’ve been trying to find the connection between the Trans Panthers and what was said to you, but I’m having a hard time following the trail. I’d really like to know if something threatening was said by one of their members, because I am trans, I abhor violence, and I really don’t want to associate with anyone who advocates resorting to violence. I mean, yes, a lot of inflammatory things have been said on both sides, but I think there’s absolutely no reason to threaten anyone. Please at least respond to me privately if you won’t post this. I’ve tried posting in a calm and rational manner on other blogs and my replies haven’t even shown up. I just really want to understand what has happened here.

    P.S. I have contacted people from Trans Panthers, too. I am really interested in getting to the bottom of who said what and why.

    • bugbrennan Says:

      The IP address ties to Wigan, UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigan). Paula’s in Wigan (see the wiga in the IP address? That’s Wigan). The email address ties to one Paula has used in prior PUBLIC Internet postings. Look at the screenshots.

      Law enforcement has been informed!

      PS – Lots of inflammatory things have been said on both “sides”? No. No one on the “trans critical” side has made death threats. But the “trans” side has a habit of doing that. See http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/kentucky-fairness-campaigns-anthony-g-casebeer-lesbian-feminists-will-be-gruesomely-murdered-%E2%80%93-by-him/

      I will also point out that you are the person who used the “side” framing, not me.

      • Jules Says:

        I’m not trying to be argumentative at all. I just want to understand better where everyone is coming from. And no, I have not seen death threats from those who have presented anti-trans commentary, but there has been a lot of stuff that is very insensitive and hurtful to the whole community.

        I hope you don’t see me asking to understand this better as an attack — I really don’t mean it that way.

      • Cynical Cynthia Says:

        @Jules: You could have saved a lot of time in regards to this by just going to the threatener’s facebook page. They have being a trans panther listed. Further information would be better solicited from the group rather than here, then you could share the findings here rather than hoping Cathy did the work for you already.

        Reading and research are a burden for all, not just one, and especially so for the people who wish to know these things. Participate if you want to know things. Cathy is amazing, but she can and should not be doing everything. Ta.

      • Jules Says:

        I did contact the Trans Panthers, too. And I did go to that Facebook page, but I wasn’t seeing the connection between the IP address and the profile linked. I just wanted clarification, and I want to hear all sides of things.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        Concern troll. Trolls. Have you gotten “all sides”? Feel better?

      • Jules Says:

        I really don’t understand why this has to be so nasty. Oh well.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        LOL! Nasty? Are you kidding? What’s nasty is that lesbians have been bullied into accepting this bullshit.

      • Jules Says:

        Well, transwomen can be lesbians, too. I think we’re all on the same team here, yanno?

      • bugbrennan Says:

        Jules, Lesbian means “Female Homosexual.” That’s what it means. That’s all. I don’t hate trans women who want to date women – I just don’t call them “lesbians.” I have a friend who has used the term “transbian” (a trans woman friend). Words have meaning.

      • Jules Says:

        I think it’s up to everyone to identify themselves in a way that makes them feel comfortable. There are plenty of transwomen who do identify as lesbians, and to tell them they’re wrong seems a little cruel. How many times have people told us, as queer people, that we’re not who we think we are? That there’s something wrong with us? That we don’t belong?

      • bugbrennan Says:

        Hi, people can identify all they like, but words have actual meanings. The dictionary is telling them they are using the word incorrectly. Words matter for females because it is females and lesbians in particular who have been marginalized by the trans conversation. You exist. You be you.

      • Jules Says:

        People tell me all the time that they object to gay marriage because of what the Bible or the dictionary says. I think we can change the meaning of words when better information comes along, or when we discover they do not tell the whole story, or need to be amended.

        I feel like the trans* conversation is important because it affects women, but larger than that, it concerns people. But I dunno if stressing this is going to bring anything more to this conversation. I guess the only hope I have left is the same I have with the people who tell me they wish all gay people would kill themselves — I hope you think a bit more about how trans* people are affected, how words and actions affect each other. I think of us as all part of the same human family, and I wish more people saw us that way.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        I totally agree, words change meaning, etc. But you have a word already – in fact, you have several. You have bisexual. You have pansexual! You have transgender.

        Lesbian means female homosexual. We will keep those, thanks.

        I wish *you* would think a bit more about how LESBIANS are impacted when people like *YOU* tell us that we are bigots for not wanting sex with MAABs. That’s EXACTLY what anti-gay bigots say to us. Oh, and straight men. Well done!

  10. Nicky Says:

    Also did you get a load of what Zoe Alan brain posted by pretending to be a biological woman and an Intersex person. I almost fell on the floor LAMO.

  11. Darlene Guerra Says:

    I’d call the FBI. It’s a threat and should be documented. Very courageous of you to lead others with this issue, Cathy.

  12. marjaerwin Says:

    A Tennessee state representative recently threatened to kill trans people for using public restrooms, and proposed a law to criminalize trans people who use public restrooms. Because of the power behind it, and the structural violence around it, I think the criminalization threat is more dangerous to more people than the death threat.

    I got a lot of threats and threatening comments when I was more involved in anti-war activism. But I didn’t keep track of the threats. I still run into people claiming that I am ‘anti-American’ or that I am ‘supporting terrorism’ by being against violence, and that I should be beaten or killed for it. So while these comments are wrong, they aren’t exceptional. I took a lot of beatings too, and haven’t been able to keep up the activism after that. Pretty often I’ve been triggered, and found the worst beatings flashing through my head all over again. I was scared I was going to die during the worst beating, and a few times I’ve wanted to die just so I won’t have to relive that beating one more time.

    • bugbrennan Says:

      Please don’t put male violence on females. That Tennessee prick was a dude. I’m also fairly confident he’s not a radical feminist. I’m also 100% confident his repulsive statement was a general statement and not made to a specific person. Please tell me if any of these statements are wrong.

      Your other statements vis-a-vis threats from anti-war activism are wholly irrelevant.

      Your value judgement that a state elected official criminalizing trans using a bathroom is more upsetting than a real death threat by a trans woman against a female is unsurprising.

      • Jules Says:

        I know this is a topic feel very strongly about, and it causes people to react emotionally. I get that. But I’m seeing a lot of judgment calls and reactionary language that I don’t feel would take place if this kind of discussion was had face to face. I think we’re losing a major point, that everyone involved is a human being.

        I don’t like it when anyone gets hurt. I don’t like it when anyone gets threatened. Do you think there’s any validity in trying to come to a place of understanding instead of attacking each other?

    • Cynical Cynthia Says:

      @Marja: What Cathy said. Plus, can no one should ever try to downplay bad things by saying other things are worse or equally bad. Negative things are negative and should be dealt with. No number of other negative things should ever be used in an attempt to make up for others. That will never lead to proper management and resolution of anything. You know, as they say, two wrongs don’t make a right. In this case, tonnes of wrongs don’t make a right nor do the wrongs you have faced outweigh Cathy’s here or anyone else’s in any other circumstance.

      What you’re doing here almost seems like what some may call a “pissing contest.” There is no room for such behaviour when trying to actually solve issues regarding negative actions against people. If you have been through shit, you should know this, Marja.

  13. Paula Allen Says:

    Funny that, somebody uses an old shared email which this time last year was public property email for TPP-UK North West Chapter and was printed on around 25,000 flyers. I wasn’t aware it was still even active. Not my IP either. THIS is my home IP if you like to check, and my official email. You should know I consider you an irrelevance, so don’t flatter yourself taking pride in recieving some odd message purporting to being from me. I wouldn’t lower myself to such immature tactics. You might like to know I’m a transsexual separatist and share many of your views on “men in frocks” accessing women only spaces.

    We TransPanthers are fully aware you have sock puppets who have infiltrated our groups. This looks to me just like one of their types of tactics. It might come as a surprise to you but it’s not the first time I have been impersonated online, and most probably will not be the last. It’s the price you pay for being a public figure unfortunately.

    Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It’s the second time this week I have had information regarding somebody going around impersonating me online. I will make enquiries as that listed ip is quite local and may be somebody who is facing me in court next month. I will find out who this is, and when I do I will take appropriate legal action against them. They obviously don’t know much to allow an IP to show like that, unless it’s a quite deliberate attempt to frame me for something. I make no secret of my home town in online communications.
    If you had looked harder you would have even found my home postal address.

    Paula Allen – President, TPP-UK Region.

    p.s. This is me “hiding” behind something, to save you the effort of looking. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/London-colours.jpg

  14. Noanodyne Says:

    Dear Jules,
    your personal lack of knowledge of the context of all this should be a source of embarrassment and prodding to do some in-depth research, not impetus to spam the comments here demanding someone take your concern trolling seriously.

    Here, let me get you started on getting a clue. You tell us you are “seeing a lot of judgment calls and reactionary language” which tells us that you have no idea that women, and especially feminists, have been hearing that since… forever. It is the primary way that men tell women to stop behaving badly and it’s meant to shame women into silence. BUT WAIT! I know from your previous comments that your hands are already on the keyboard and you’re going to tell me I’m wrong. Just like you’ve already managed to do over and over, despite our complete lack of interest in your opinion.

    So here is where I’m done assuming that you actually have good intentions with your comments. And now I’m going to tell you what every person should already know: Women have a right, whether you like it or not, to speak up about things we consider bad for us. And we don’t have to say it nicely or with the proper language. We can assess a situation, make a decision about it, and call out bad behavior. Period. We don’t need your permission or your intervention or your comfort or your understanding.

    So here are your two choices: Either respect that we have a right to say what we believe, that we’ve done every bit as much communication with others as was needed, and we are going forward in exactly this way. Or don’t. In either case, STFU unless you have something meaningful and useful to communicate that represents that you understand the entire context.

    • Jules Says:

      But see, the problem is that transwomen are women too, and that is the point that is being lost here. It’s disappointing. Yes, I do see that women have a right to talk, but I firmly believe from real life experience that the definition of what makes someone a “man” or a “woman” is a lot more broad than what’s being discussed here. By claiming some women are not women and are not valid does us all a disservice.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        Jules – Hi, you seem well-meaning.

        Trans women are women. I agree. Trans women are NOT female. Female is SEX. Woman is GENDER.

        A penis is a male organ. That’s biology. Take that up with someone else if you don’t like that.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        The vast majority of humans the world over are not ever going to go along with the delusion that “women have penises” — it won’t matter how many times trans* people say it. And I can tell you for a fact that many lesbians who have been and would have remained allies to trans women are starting to see that many trans people simply do not care what lesbians feel or think. We know exactly who and what women are, we don’t need people with penises to school us, and we’re beyond tired of trans* people trying in spite of that to jam these weird ideas about women with penises down our throats. And, yes, that is an intentional sexual metaphor, because that is where this whole discussion started.

      • Jules Says:

        i dunno. I think of “lesbian” as meaning “woman loving woman.” What I love about women goes beyond their biology and just their bodies. I love that spirit within. I love all the things that make a woman a woman, not just her bits.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        Hi, um, so do lesbians. We used to be able to say women loving women, but then the whole trans thing came along and, well, you know the rest. So we need to get real specific.

        “What I love about women goes beyond their biology and just their bodies. I love that spirit within. I love all the things that make a woman a woman, not just her bits.” God you are cute. Also, a penis is not a female “bit.”

      • Jules Says:

        I haven’t been mean or condescending at all on this board, so I don’t know why I’m receiving that back. I’m just trying to have a conversation.

      • bugbrennan Says:

        I am serious. That is cute.

      • Nicky Says:

        Ah nope, Transwomen are NOT women. they are still men regardless of how many surgeries or how many chemicals are pumped into their system. They are still men and have all the MALE DNA with them.

        It’s quite obvious that you flunked or failed High school or college level science Biology or genetics class.

  15. FCM Says:

    thanks for documenting this.

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